State Sen. David Bullard and state reps Cody Maynard and Justin Humphrey spoke during a legislative breakfast Feb. 20 at the Gordon Event Center presented by the City of Durant.
Durant City Manager Pam Polk asked about a proposed state question to phase out property taxes on owner-occupied homesteads.
Property taxes fund municipalities and schools in the state.
Bullard said it is a state question, not a bill, and organizers are in the process of trying to gather signatures.
“I have not heard of them actually gathering the signatures right now,” Bullard said. “So, in order to get those through, you’re going to have to be very, very organized to get those signatures.”
According to Bullard, property taxes have increased significantly in the last decade.
“You’re seeing a lot of people, when we hit the doors, we are hearing from a massive majority of our people saying, ‘I’m trying to figure out, do I keep feeding my family, do I sell my house, do I lose my property, what hap- pens,”’ Bullard said.
He said that the proposition would eliminate property taxes in three years and that it is “dangerous.”
Bullard said he filed a bill this year that for people 65 and over who own their home outright would no longer have to pay property taxes.
“We’re doing the crunching of numbers on it right now,” Bullard said. “It’s actually a pretty small percentage of people out there. It also allows for those taxes to be made up. One of the things that we’ve looked at over the years is, for example, income tax.
“Income tax goes all to the State of Oklahoma. It doesn’t go out to your local areas, so with income tax, we can wean the state off of that as we have growth.”
According to Bullard, property taxes are not something you can just wean yourself off of, and it is a trade off in that there would have to be increases in other taxes. He spoke of supply side economics.
“The more money you put in people’s (pockets), like when you talk to your elderly right now that are retired, if they have another five, six, seven, eight thousand dollars in their bank account, they’re not saving it,” Bullard said. “They’re going to just stop eating bologna sandwiches for lunch and dinner every day. So, they’re going to go spend more money out there in your economy.”
Maynard said he has talked to multiple legislators who had been in the legislature in that past, so this is not a new conversation.
“They’ve been talking for 20 years on trying to reform property taxes and nothing ever happens,” Maynard said. “One of the reasons I actually think that state question got filed, is a few people were like, ‘It’s time to force y’all to actually have the conversation.’
“So, I would say, one of the great things, is we saw a slew of bills come out after that question got filed. We were, ‘Oh crud, if we don’t actually start to come up with a plan, we may have one forced on us,’ and so I think this is a really good thing that we’re having a conversation because it is just a fact that we are having people getting priced out of their homes and that is not a good place to ever be. I’ve sat across the couch from several elderly people who we had that conversation of my property taxes keep creeping up and I just don’t know if I can keep affording this.
“Philosophically, I hate property taxes the most. Out of all the tax types, if I could wave a magic wand and just eliminate one, it would be property tax because consumption taxes, sales tax, you only have to (pay taxes) on what you choose to spend. An income tax, you’re only paying when you earn something, but that means you had money to help pay with.
“A property tax, you’re paying usually unearned gains. Your property has gone up in value and you’re having to pay on it and you may not have any new income to do so with, and so philosophically, that’s my issue with property taxes is you never get to own your land. That’s the feeling that many of us have is that I bought this land 20 years ago, so why do I have to keep paying on it every single year. I’m renting from the state is how it feels and so for that reason, I want us to find a solution. I do not know what the solution is. That’s the real question because what you can’t do is just yank all of the funding from towns and cities and schools. That can’t happen.”
According to Maynard, there needs to be an intelligent conversation where a comprehensive package is put forth that would change property taxes and replace them with something comparable.
“I will be honest with you, I don’t have high hopes that we’re going to solve anything this year,” Maynard said. “It’s a massive conversation that’s been ongoing. So, for all of you, that you’re like, ‘I’m ready for my property taxes to end,’ I don’t know that that’s going to happen.”
According to Maynard, the proposed state question has not been approved to collect signatures, and it must receive approval from the attorney general.
Humphrey spoke of the Fentanyl problem and of jails getting sued.
“We got people walking all around on Fentanyl,” Humphrey said. “There’s a whole new crisis. Guys, the ones that were on methamphetamine, they could tell you their name. The people who are on Fentanyl, guess what? They can’t even tell you their name.
“They’re walking around. All of these homeless, all these continual crimes. Part of the big problem is that we don’t have mental health beds. It’s easy to fix. Why is our jails getting sued? Did you all know we’re losing all of our jail insurance? You know why? Because we’re not a mental health institution. We’re not a mental health facility and we’re getting sued. You know why that’s important to you? Because guess what happens when you get sued. You lose your insurance.”
Humphrey said the Atoka County Jail has been sued and that the jail in Hugo just lost a $9 million lawsuit.
“Guys, what’s that going to do to your property taxes when you do that,” Humphrey said. “You’re on the line. You’re being looked at to lose your insurance over all these things.”
